In this Marketing Over Coffee:

Learn about AI Generated Video, n8n, Bootcamp, Silent Dance Parties and More!

Direct Link to File

SPMS Commercial Spot

"No Code" doesn’t mean "No Work"

n8n workflow notes

Model Updates – Video for Google, New Gemini

8:11 – 9:54 NetSuite is the number one cloud financial system, bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, HR, into ONE platform, and ONE source of truth.

12 Hours of instruction in the 2 Day AI Bootcamp

Instagram Locked Posts

Canva sheets? Cute spreadsheets?

Martech 1,000,000

Bluetooth Auracast

Status Between 3ANC

Killer Sound: Klipsch The Fives, The WiiM Mini to make your speakers smart, and Subwoofer

Events: Profs Boston, Content Marketing World SD, MAICON Cleveland, INBOUND SF

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Speaker 1 – 00:00
Today’s episode is brought to you by NetSuite and Wix Studio.

Speaker 2 – 00:10

This is Marketing Over Coffee with Christopher Penn and John Wall.

Speaker 1 – 00:18
Good morning. Welcome to Marketing Over Coffee. I’m John Wall.

Speaker 2 – 00:21

I’m Christopher Penn.

Speaker 1 – 00:22
And all kinds of stuff going on. So Google dominating the news. Last week were showing off some image
generation stuff with Jen and I that just killed it. And I wanted to mention too we put the video is out and available on
that. I had some requests that said you know, still put the audio in Libsyn even if it’s not, you know, it’s basically not
listenable because it’s all about look at these pictures. But people were like no, still put it in there because we want
to know that it’s up. So I will go ahead and do that. That’s decent advice, we’ll take advantage of that. But you have
been traveling all over the place. What the heck has been going on?

Speaker 2 – 00:54

Yeah, I just finished leg one of the spring tour. So in the last five weeks it’s been San Diego, Wilmington, Miami,
Chicago and D at all these different events and it has been a whirlwind just teaching AI. I just, I just did a two day
intensive workshop for Society for Marketing Professional Services which is the Architecture engineering
construction industry event. And that one’s a tiring one. That is 12 full hours of instruction over two days. Just
putting people on blast about AI. But it was a lot of fun. Some of the big things. One of the big things that I started
with, and we have a link to our YouTube channel on it is I created a 30 second spot for an architecture firm and you
know it was pretty decent. I used Google’s new VO2 model for the video generation.

Speaker 2 – 01:44

And then I added in ElevenLabs their Dom LaFontaine style voice which was terrific. And then on top of that I then
added in music from Suno which worked out really well. And then I added in the script from Gemini. And what was

stunning to me was the 32nd spot was decent. But I asked people, I said if you had to budget for this kind of 32nd
spot for your firm, how long would it take and how much would it cost? And a few of the attendees, the largest
construction firm said oh yeah, we’ve done stuff like this, it’s a six to nine months to build this, the whole approvals
process and about a half million dollars in bud because you got to hire film crews and get insurance and do all this
crazy stuff to get it up and running.

Speaker 2 – 02:38

And I said okay, this cost me $7 in processing time across all the different companies and it was done in 38
minutes. And I actually have it here. We can roll it because it’s a short spot here. Let’s go ahead and roll this. Your
next landmark office or mixed use project demands more than just design. It demands certainty. At Southern Isles
aec, our integrated architecture and engineering teams eliminate surprises. Delivering complex high performance
spaces on schedule, on budget, maximizing your assets, long term value, experience, true partnership and
sustainable design that performs Southern Isles AEC building your vision reliably. Learn more at
southernislesaec.com so that was the short trip and 11 labs, I have to say, really nailed the Dom LaFontaine voice.

Speaker 1 – 03:38
They get the hit in there. Yeah. That is just amazing. And especially how far this stuff is moving so fast. I mean,
when you think about the pizza video from a year and a half ago, I mean it’s just no comparison whatsoever. It is
cranking up and moving at an amazing rate. How about other stuff with models too though? Because we’ve seen a
bunch of other stuff from Google this week. They have their I O events coming up and new versions of Gemini.

Speaker 2 – 04:01

Yeah, there’s a new version of Gemini 2.50504. Basically it’s the I O version and it’s a much smarter coder now. Not
that it wasn’t really. It was actually it was topping leaderboards. But now I believe it is either neck and neck or just
slightly ahead of OpenAI’s O3, which is considered to be the best coder tool available model right now by like 12
points on the different, various different leaderboards. And these are human preference things. So it’s people saying
like yeah, this model response A was better than response B, which is nuts because these models are already in the
72 to 74% range of correctness, which means that 72% of the time they get it right the first time out of the box. I’m,
you know, I’m a pretty crap coder. I maybe get it right 50% of the time and stuff.

Speaker 2 – 04:54

So these models are already objectively almost 1.5 times better than I am as a person writing code because I’m not
that good at it. But it is astonishing how smart they’re getting and how fast the space is evolving. Last week,
Alibaba’s Quinn 3 models came out. And these are small, these are ones that run on your laptop and it is on the
board for it’s about 60% correctness rate. So if OpenAI and Google and whatever just vanished tomorrow. Or they
said, hey, we’re making prices 100x what they were. You can still download the free versions of, you know, these
open models and run them and have almost as good capabilities that are free. In fact, it’s so ridiculously cool.

Speaker 2 – 05:40

I built AN app in N8N, the automation tool that looks at my screenshots folder, looks at each screenshot because it’s

a vision language model and renames the file with like what’s actually in the image. And it went through like 800
images in less than an hour.

Speaker 1 – 05:56
Oh, that’s. Yeah, every marketer has like 600 folders filled with a bunch of IMG0623 that they have no idea what the
heck any of that stuff is. So I can see that totally changing the game and getting your machine back in order, that
would be wonderful. Well, and then the fact that once they’re tagged like that, now you can search. Like when they
have stupid camera names, they’re completely invisible. So you can, you know, then you could be like, okay, show me
all the pictures of a dog or whatever and get to what you need to.

Speaker 2 – 06:24

Exactly. So I turned it into a full Python app because N8N is great. It’s a, it’s a no code environment. But one of the
things that I’ve been yelling at people about, because you’ve always been saying I need a no code solution for this,
like, no code doesn’t mean no work. You still have to think this through, you still have to do all the requirements,
gathering stuff.

Speaker 2 – 06:44

But one of the secret hacks of N8N that I love that I haven’t talked about this anywhere yet, so we won’t even put this
in the show notes, is that because you can export the layout file in JSON format from the tool, you can dump that
into a tool like Gemini and say, convert this N8N workflow into a full Python app and say, now turn to like a bespoke
fully baked real application that doesn’t need other infrastructure. And that’s pretty damn cool to say. Like, yeah, I can
think through and do the thinking work in NAN and have it build a JSON file and then I can have the JSON file to
Google, say, translate this into Python and now, boom, you’ve got a bespoke app that is ready for that. You can run
anytime you want.

Speaker 1 – 07:31
Oh, that is super cool. Yeah, that’s audio only. We’re not putting that anywhere out there because that is amazing. So
you could use NAN and you totally get the workflow. You’re like, okay, grab these emails from this inbox and like, you
know, sort them this way and then output it here and Write it to HubSpot and then have the whole thing just baked as
an app. That’s amazing.

Speaker 2 – 07:48

And then when you do that, Google or Gemini and any coding tool knows this is, oh, using an N8 and Gmail node.
That means I need to find the appropriate Python library that does that replicates that node’s functionality so it know
it’s smart enough to know, oh, I’m going to need all these other libraries to piece together the app.

Speaker 1 – 08:08
Oh, that’s crazy. Okay, there’s a ton of stuff still to kick around. We just have to take a second. We Want to thank
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Speaker 1 – 08:54
With real time insights and forecasting, you’re peering into the future with actionable data. When you’re closing the
books in days, not weeks, you’re spending less time looking backward and more time on what’s next. Yeah, again we
hear over and over again that it’s just worth doing this. As your business gets more and more complicated, the more
vendors you have, the tougher it’s going to get to manage and the more complicated it’s going to get. By going with a
single provider, you’ve got that single source of truth. It’s just easier to manage. You can spend your time
concentrating on what’s growing the business, not managing stuff on the back end. Whether your company is
earning millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and seize your
biggest opportunities.

Speaker 1 – 09:34
Speaking of opportunity, download the CFO’s Guide to AI and Machine Learning at netsuite.com Coffee the guide is
free to you at netsuite.com Coffee again. N E T S U-I-T E.com C-O-F-F-E-E netsuite.com Coffee and we thank them
for their support of the show. I did want to circle back to one thing you talked about, the two day workshop. This is
something we’ve been seeing a lot of interest. You’ve been doing a bunch of them for corporate clients that have
their whole team. But now we’ve reached this point where words got around and we have a number of different
organizations like trade associations or other groups that want to run these.

Speaker 1 – 10:12
So if you’re interested in that, be sure to drop me a line, get in touch with me because we’re going to be running these
in a bunch of different cities and we’ve got, like I said, a couple of associations where they’ll be looking for additional
people. So if you only have a team of one or two and you can’t afford a full on two day thing, we might have some
opportunities for you to just, hey, if you show up, you know, in Cleveland in October for two days, you can come
check out this session. So more to come on that. But definitely stay in the loop on that if you want to do more stuff
there.

Speaker 2 – 10:40

Yeah, if you check out the. And we’ll put a link in the shows. The most recent issue of the Almost Timely newsletter
has a list of here’s what happens in a workshop. And it’s, you know, the seven. I think it’s the seven or 14 major
sections of the workshop and a brief explanation because it’s long. However, one of the things that I learned getting
ready and this has been happening all year for me is that people in workshops and in keynotes and stuff don’t try
things because they don’t have access to the data. So one of the things that I built for this workshop and I’m actually
building, no surprise in Nan workflow that I’m eventually going to show into an app is building all the supplementary
materials for workshops.

Speaker 2 – 11:22

So you give me if Southern Isles AEC says, hey, we need a workshop for our company, I’ll grab the background
information, put it into this application and it’ll generate the fake emails, the fake CRM data, the fake competitor data

and all the stuff, like 40 different files. And so people, when they take the workshop, they don’t need to go anywhere
or do anything. They’ve just got all the goods right in front of them. And it doubles the participation rate in the AEC
workshop. Because I last I wander around during the exercise and I see who’s doing it and who’s like checking their
email and on Instagram, whatever. And the number of people this Time around who are like, oh, I have the files. I
don’t need to go and figure out, you know, my customer service inbox. It’s just, all right, there’s.

Speaker 2 – 12:05

And it’s all synthetic, right. So another concern people have had during workshops is I don’t, you know, my company
won’t let me use our confidential data in some of these systems, which is smart. So when we give them synthetic
data, like, I can do this and I don’t have to get in trouble, right?

Speaker 1 – 12:20
Yeah, exactly. There was a funny meme somebody had in analytics for marketers about me uploading 10 gig of
confidential email to have ChatGPT write me an email. I was like, yeah, that’s the nightmare that we see all over the
place. Oh, you mentioned Instagram. I just had a quick thing on that. I saw an article talking about testing of
Instagram locked posts. So the idea is that a brand could post something and you have to get the code from some
other marketing campaign or, you know, buy something or whatever. So that was just an interesting idea. So have
that in the back of your mind in case that does take off. You know, if you want something, test something with that.
That could be an opportunity there. And then another short one was Canva doing sheets actually, like cute
spreadsheets.

Speaker 1 – 13:00
I don’t know if that doesn’t do anything for me, but maybe I’m missing the boat on that. I don’t know.

Speaker 2 – 13:04

I mean, sure, I know. Gemini is now somewhat useful in Google sheets. It’s still not great. It’s better than Copilot.
Copilot in Excel is garbage. It was interesting. I was reading an article recently about why Copilot is garbage. And
there’s a bunch of different reasons. Number one, it’s a rag system. Microsoft has optimized it for use with your
existing documents. So if your existing documents are crap, it’s not going to do a great job. Two, Microsoft has a
suite of models behind the scene that are all optimized for cost. So they’re dumber models because they don’t want
people spending a gazillion dollars of processing power having them make Word documents that no one’s going to
read anyway. And three, because of the enterprise nature of Copilot, it has to go through more certifications and a
much longer process to be released.

Speaker 2 – 13:55

So all of its models inherently are much further behind than the public models that are not certified for anything. And
so companies that have bought Copilot because they want the safe AI have traded off functionality for safety.

Speaker 1 – 14:12

Okay, Martech with their latest list. I was jokingly called it the Martech Million app march. The numbers just keep
going up over there. The one thing I’ve seen a live chatter about the fact that now there’s this whole slew of AI
enabled stuff on top of the pile too. Is there anything else out of that though that you’re looking at or that came to
light for you?

Speaker 2 – 14:31

Here’s the thing with what’s happening with software generation AI, I think the Martech map is probably missing a
zero because there’s a ton of wrapper companies and startups. You know, somebody’s like, oh, I’ve started up a
company, I use generative AI to make a brand new Martech company even and even companies going in house. Like
we had that piece not too long about Klarna throwing Salesforce overboard because they use generative AI to write
their own CRM and save themselves like a million and a half dollars. A so of what’s in the Martech map I think is
probably the companies that are established enough to respond to Scott Brinker survey. But I think there’s a huge
chunk of the universe that’s missing because there’s a gazillion and a half one person startups like, oh, I’m going to
be the next big thing.

Speaker 2 – 15:17

And they’ve got their web app out there and they’ve got their mobile app which Firebase Studio came out two weeks
ago at Google Cloud next. In this app in Firebase Studio you give it a prompt and it builds a mobile app start to finish
and you deploy it within Firebase Studio. Obviously Google’s, you know, using tying you into their ecosystem but my
goodness, the ability for you to say here’s a long prompt of here’s what I want you to do. Build me the mobile and it
builds the prototype right in the browser is just nuts. So I think the Martech map’s missing a zero.

Speaker 1 – 15:50
Yeah, definitely. Well, and last time I talked with Scott too, you were saying like WordPress plugins and things like
that aren’t included in there and there’s hundreds of thousands of those and I do know people that live on a desert
island with a million dollars because of one plugin that, you know, they’ve managed to make light on fire and go. So
yeah, there’s so much out there it’s insane. I had to give a shout out. We had Ron Ploufon talking about his, the stuff
he has going on, but a number of people jumped onto his beta. So I want to thank people for checking that out. That
was interesting. We’ve got more stuff coming on that too. Another one that I had that was interesting was for
Bluetooth, this new protocol called AuraCast.

Speaker 1 – 16:27
And the idea with this is that you’ll be able to take and broadcast Bluetooth signals instead of it being point to a
single device, you can put one signal out there and via a number of different ways to fire it. Anybody with Bluetooth
enabled can listen to what’s going on. So you could have an advertisement on the subway that people could just
scan a QR code and everyone could listen to it. Or for museums or movie theaters where you need hearing impaired
audio provided, that can just become part of the Bluetooth protocol. So now you just have to buy the broadcast
device. You don’t have to worry about having all these receiver packs and headphones and all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 1 – 17:03
And of course, silent dance jams and doing, you know, having DJs be able to just throw their music down
somewhere and do a silent dance party. So yeah, I had been playing around with a lot of that stuff and was trying to
figure it out via Bluetooth. So I’ll keep an eye on that when that gets closer to the market. There’s already some
people testing that, but as it gets closer, we’ll have more info on that to check out.

Speaker 2 – 17:24

That could be really interesting. So for like a museum, whatever, not only could you have. If you had multiple devices,
you could broadcast in different languages and stuff like that. People could tune in that way. And if you’re. So the
last. The first time I saw this commercially used was at the Marketing AI conference last year where they had on the
expo floor two stages and different headphones and they had some poor person who had to sanitize the
headphones after every demo. But it was really cool that they had the red side and the blue side and people could
just put the headphones on and listen to the demo pitch. But it wasn’t blasting the rest of the trade show floor with
the guy trying to scream over everything.

Speaker 2 – 17:59

And there were a lot of people who sat down to listen to the sort of the silent disco demos thing. I could definitely
see the oracast being even better because now you could just pop open your AirPods and say, okay, I’m just gonna
listen to this demo now and just tune into that way. That would be. That’d be pretty killer.

Speaker 1 – 18:14
Yeah, right. Like you said, the poor guy that has to. Guy or gal that has to wash all those headphones after each
round they can get around that. That would make their day a whole lot easier. And. Yeah. And to be able to have tons
of multiple soundtracks, you know, and just kind of throw them all out as they go. I had a couple audio things I had
promised follow up on that. The status between 3 ANC, I checked those out. I think we’re finally at a point with
earbuds and in ear monitors where, you know, if you’ve tested three or four and you have the one you like, that’s
pretty much it. There’s not anything out there that’s like, oh, this blows the doors off and is better than everything
else that’s come before. I think there is one thing with.

Speaker 1 – 18:51
You have to find something that matches your take on what you want to listen to, because they definitely sound very
different depending on the sound profile you want. Like, some people want a lot more treble, some people want
more bass. And, you know, there’s a lot on that front, but these were cool. But I wouldn’t say, you know, throw away
whatever you’ve got that you like to buy them, which I have done in the past, passed with other stuff. And then the
other one was the Klipsch, the fives. Those speakers that I’ve been testing out, I replaced all the smart speakers
with. Those are just amazing. I’m gonna have links to those. And two, there’s a hockey puck that bluetoothies them,
basically makes them smart speakers. And that is just. I will never buy a smart speaker again.

Speaker 1 – 19:28
Just, like, get good speakers and make them smart. That is just so much more efficient and just sounds so much
better. It’s insane. The Amazon smart woofer that I had, you know, had some bass, but this Klipsch woofer, like,
shakes the house. It, like, annoys the neighbors. I mean, it’s just. And it’s around the same price. I mean, they’re
within $30. So, yeah, that. I’ll have more on that as that goes. We’re doing a survey over in analytics for marketers,
and I wanted to throw the same question out here. You were asking about events. Are you in for either marketing
Prof. Boston, Content Marketing World, San Diego, Macon, Cleveland, or HubSpot’s Inbound in San Francisco. We’ve
got. I will definitely be at Macon and Profs is in town too. I’m not going to San Francisco for inbound. I, like, I joked
over there.

Speaker 1 – 20:13
We have a side bet as to whether that’s a bad idea. I just. The idea of throwing HubSpot, throwing their event in
Salesforce’s backyard, I mean, Salesforce loves to troll other companies.

Speaker 2 – 20:22

It just seems at Oracle too.

Speaker 1 – 20:24
Yeah, yeah, right. Same thing. I mean they’ve had, you know, years and years of trolling each other to up their game
and now here comes HubSpot into town. It just, I just see somebody getting pants died. Can’t get around that. It
seems like such a horrible thing. But maybe I’m wrong. Maybe Marc Benioff and Larry Ellison are now kinder, gentler
executives. Anybody that knows that company, that’s like the most ridiculous thing I’ve said on this podcast probably
in the last 10 years. So we will, I don’t know, whatever. We’ll just cover and run with that. You’ve got a bunch of other
stuff coming up. Well, and if you have any more to add on that.

Speaker 2 – 21:03

Well, the thing about San Francisco is it is so damn expensive for everything there. Like your hotel is going to be 500
a night guaranteed. And even though the conference rate is probably still like 400 a night, there’s the city and
Moscone center is just, it’s not optimized for that. Even though they’ve been having, you know, Dreamforce and stuff
there for a decade, the city just isn’t optimized for handling those kinds of crowds. And it’s just a pain to get around.
It’s so expensive. And even flying, it is not a whole lot of fun. Like when you fly into Boston, the BCEC is not that far
from the airport. San Diego when you fly into San Diego like you can almost walk from the airport to the convention
center. It’s about a two, it’s about two miles.

Speaker 2 – 21:45

You can see the planes landing from your hotel room most of the time. Cleveland, same thing. The Huntington
Convention Center. When you look out the window of the Hilton, there’s the airport on the island, right? So it’s a 10
minute ride. San Francisco SFO is 30 minutes south without traffic. Two hours with traffic, you know, and the, the
public transit is not great. It’s, it’s. I love San Francisco as a city. It’s one of my favorite places to visit. It is not a place
I like to go to conf for conferences because everything’s a million dollars. Like your uber rides like 300 bucks from
the airport to a hotel. But yeah, upcoming events, I will be at SMPS Toronto in a week. So I’m looking forward to
crossing the border actually I forward to coming back home. That’ll be interesting.

Speaker 2 – 22:31

Following that’ll be at the Marketing Analytics Summit in Phoenix. The first week of June, I’ll be teaching a half day
workshop on data analysis there and then that will be it for the spring tour. So we’ll get into the summer months,
which will be nice. Get a chance to actually sit down and enjoy the house that I pay for and the family that I have.

Speaker 1 – 22:48
Uncle Chris is home.

Speaker 2 – 22:50

Exactly. But then the fall is already stacking up. So s p s Denver is going to be October 9th and 10th and then
immediately afterwards is going to be mekon, which is October 14th, 16th. So gotta be on the road for like 10 days
straight.

Speaker 1 – 23:04
All right. Yeah, a ton of travel. We’ll keep you in the loop on that. And if you’re gonna be hitting any of those cities or
events, be sure to give us a yell so we can catch up with you. Sign up for the Marketing Over Coffee text line at
617-812-5494. Yeah, I gave away some airtag keychain holders. Marketing Over Coffee keychain holders. I might
have a couple of those left, but I w if I if there are a few after this first round of shipping, I’ll throw them over on the
text line. But I think that’s gonna do it for this week. So until next week. Enjoy the coffee.

Speaker 2 – 23:29

Enjoy the coffee. You’ve been listening to Marketing Over Coffee. Christopher Penn blogs@christopherspenn.com
Read more from John J. Wall at jw5150.com the marketing over Coffee theme song is called Mellow G by Funk
Masters and you can find it at Musically from Mevio or follow the link in our show notes.